Leadership and Maverick Thinking with Guest Author Garry Hall | Beyond the Pen Podcast

**Maccabee** (00:00:00) - Hello, all you beautiful people. All you gorgeous book lovers out there. It is your boy Maccabee Griffin. Again, I appreciate you being here and welcome again to be on the pen where we dive into the minds of inspiring authors. Today we are thrilled to have retired rear Admiral Gary Hall, a true leader, both on and off the page. Born in Buffalo, New York, Gary has dedicated his life to service spending 35 years in US Navy and even advising the president on national security. His book, navigating Leadership, draws on his vast experience from commanding squadrons to fostering global relationships. But Gary's not just decorated officer, he's a devoted husband, he's a father, a podcast host, and he's using his wit and wisdom to inspire leaders from all walks of life. So, buckle up cuz we have the next maverick of leadership here with us, Mr. Gary Hall. Gary, welcome to the show.

**Garry Hall** (00:01:13) - Thank you very much for having me on this show. I look forward to it. It's exciting. Morning. I appreciate that, uh, introduction. A little long, a little bit over the top, but exactly as I wrote it. Thank you,

**Maccabee** (00:01:25) - <laugh>. I try to stay as close to your wording as possible, you know, just to make sure that you know, I'm saying exactly what you want me to say.

**Garry Hall** (00:01:35) - Absolutely. To summarize, I'm rear Admiral Gary Hall, world famous helicopter pilot, adventure sportsman, world traveler. I'm perhaps the finest helicopter pilot I know. Call, sign Viper and I'll be your commanding officer during your tour here at Top Gun. This is the Top Gun podcast, isn't it?

**Maccabee** (00:01:53) - Uh, yeah, we'll go with that today.

**Garry Hall** (00:01:55) - There we go.

**Maccabee** (00:01:57) - See, this is why I wanted to have Gary on here. There's another reason why I have Gary on here, because I had the chance, the opportunity to be a part of the project of navigating leadership and helping to proofread slash edit as slash you know, just giving my 2 cents. Um, and it was fun. I loved it. Uh, it was really fun to work on it and to, to learn his story. So just to give it off the spot. Gary, why don't you introduce yourself to my, uh, my beautiful book lovers here, and tell us something that people don't know about you.

**Garry Hall** (00:02:37) - Well, gosh, I'm, I'm an open book is my, uh, seventh grade or eighth. He was my seventh grade and eighth grade, uh, um, social studies instructor when I was in, uh, junior high. Back then, middle school was called Junior High. Uh, Mr. Hahn said, hall, you're a book. You're all covering no pages. So there's, uh, not much that people, people don't, uh, know about me. Um, I would say that, uh, you know, the book kind of wrote itself in many ways. Um, so what people don't know is that it takes a team to bring a book alive and you're part of that, uh, team McAbee, um, you know, my wife for years going, all right, your friends have written a book. Where's your book? And I would always hold up a pen and say, it's, it's in this pen, I just gotta squeeze it out. And so there's so many people out there with the ability to self-publish, just put something together, turn it into a P D F, put it up on, uh, K D P, and it's a book, but really, uh, you need, uh, people to help you to, um, guide you a little bit. So I think what people don't realize is that it takes a, a team to write a, a quality book, and I believe we have a quality book, and you were a major part of, uh, bringing that to, to life.

**Maccabee** (00:03:54) - Well, I do appreciate that because again, it was fun to work with. It was, uh, interesting to read some of the, the little stories that you had in there. Uh, I wanna start out by, you know, talking about when you grew up in New York and you, you stated that you always wanted to interact with such a diverse range of people, uh, around your neighborhood, around the city in general, uh, from the drugstore attendants to the misfits on the streets. How have these experiences influenced your ability to connect with people from different backgrounds and foster relationships throughout your career?

**Garry Hall** (00:04:36) - Well, I grew up in what I call, um, a family. That was my mother put the fun and dysfunction, and my father put the funk in dysfunction. So therefore, I sought, um, uh, outside of the home, I sought, uh, I was an attention-seeking son of a gun. And so the more diverse people you meet, the more experiences you gain. You know, I used to hang out at Gene Gordon's Magic Shop on Franklin Street right across from the Buffalo Coffin Company, uh, in Buffalo, New York. And at the same time, uh, celebrities like Dick Cavitt hung out there, uh, as well, we were both young men, uh, learning how to do magic and entertain people. Of course, he went on to a little bit greater, um, greater fame. But I think, uh, the interaction, you know, uh, it just, it's fun. You know, I was seek, I was seeking attention.

**Garry Hall** (00:05:30) - I was seeking fun. I was seeking activity. And, uh, good thing I didn't wind up robbing the, uh, the drugstore or the local, uh, shops or running with gangs. But it was all, all good people. And it wasn't until later I went back to Buffalo and realized, uh, once, if you've survived the winter, you're really helpful, friendly, patriotic, uh, community. It's more than Buffalo Bills. Um, well, no it isn't. It's bowling buffalo bills and, uh, good ethnic food. So I grew up in a, in a, in a northern ethnicity diversity, which is different than maybe a south Texas, uh, diversity. But anyway, it, it shaped me in, I never want to shovel snow again.

**Maccabee** (00:06:18) - I know that feeling. I definitely know that feeling. But thankfully I don't get as much snow as, you know, Buffalo. Um, speaking of some, you know, I don't wanna call him a misfit, but, uh, I would say more of your, your, your ride ride or die, or in this case, crash and burn. Um, let's talk about the ground school engineering exam story, because I think you and SW code name swings, uh, had a very interesting experience in learning what risky leadership is. Can you explain the most valuable lesson you've learned from this experience, uh, and how it has shaped your approach to risk taking in leadership while still explaining, uh, what that experience was for those who haven't had a chance to, uh, read it?

**Garry Hall** (00:07:13) - Well, uh, Sweeney, uh, or sws was my roommate. Uh, for the last two years of our, our time at the Naval Academy, we were four years in the same, uh, company, is how the, uh, Naval Academy was structured back then. And we became, uh, roommates and we were always getting into trouble at the Naval Academy. And in fact, our company officer had to rank us as professionally. And, uh, we were ranked, uh, he was ranked 17. I was ranked number 19 of 19, and we wondered how the one guy got between the two of us. You know, we were doing stuff like rebuilding Porsche carburetors in our, uh, dorm room, which, uh, was forbidden. I remember the maintenance staff came into our room one time and said, uh, Hey boys, where's that stick that goes with this room? And we said, what, what stick? And he goes, the stick to stir up all this crap in here.

**Garry Hall** (00:08:08) - So anyway, we were a little, we were living on the fringe, but when you go to a service academy, even if you have an English degree, you get a bachelor of science. I mean, you are focused on mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, physics, chemistry. Um, so it is a rigorous course. I mean, not, there were semesters that we took 21 or 22 hours. So basically, even if you graduate with a 2.0, you have a solid engineering background. So anyway, the two of us decide we're gonna go down to flight school. At the same time, we became roommates in flight school, and we were two academy graduates with 28 other, um, pilot wannabes, student aviators from all sorts of backgrounds, from officer candidate school and from R O T C. None of them having this, even though we were bottom dwellers, we were bottom dwellers at an extremely difficult academic environment.

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