**Maccabee** (00:00:00) - Hello, all you beautiful people. All you gorgeous book lovers out there. It is your boy Maccabee Griffin. Again, I appreciate you being here and welcome again to be on the pen where we dive into the minds of inspiring authors. Today we are thrilled to have retired rear Admiral Gary Hall, a true leader, both on and off the page. Born in Buffalo, New York, Gary has dedicated his life to service spending 35 years in US Navy and even advising the president on national security. His book, navigating Leadership, draws on his vast experience from commanding squadrons to fostering global relationships. But Gary's not just decorated officer, he's a devoted husband, he's a father, a podcast host, and he's using his wit and wisdom to inspire leaders from all walks of life. So, buckle up cuz we have the next maverick of leadership here with us, Mr. Gary Hall. Gary, welcome to the show.
**Garry Hall** (00:01:13) - Thank you very much for having me on this show. I look forward to it. It's exciting. Morning. I appreciate that, uh, introduction. A little long, a little bit over the top, but exactly as I wrote it. Thank you,
**Maccabee** (00:01:25) - <laugh>. I try to stay as close to your wording as possible, you know, just to make sure that you know, I'm saying exactly what you want me to say.
**Garry Hall** (00:01:35) - Absolutely. To summarize, I'm rear Admiral Gary Hall, world famous helicopter pilot, adventure sportsman, world traveler. I'm perhaps the finest helicopter pilot I know. Call, sign Viper and I'll be your commanding officer during your tour here at Top Gun. This is the Top Gun podcast, isn't it?
**Maccabee** (00:01:53) - Uh, yeah, we'll go with that today.
**Garry Hall** (00:01:55) - There we go.
**Maccabee** (00:01:57) - See, this is why I wanted to have Gary on here. There's another reason why I have Gary on here, because I had the chance, the opportunity to be a part of the project of navigating leadership and helping to proofread slash edit as slash you know, just giving my 2 cents. Um, and it was fun. I loved it. Uh, it was really fun to work on it and to, to learn his story. So just to give it off the spot. Gary, why don't you introduce yourself to my, uh, my beautiful book lovers here, and tell us something that people don't know about you.
**Garry Hall** (00:02:37) - Well, gosh, I'm, I'm an open book is my, uh, seventh grade or eighth. He was my seventh grade and eighth grade, uh, um, social studies instructor when I was in, uh, junior high. Back then, middle school was called Junior High. Uh, Mr. Hahn said, hall, you're a book. You're all covering no pages. So there's, uh, not much that people, people don't, uh, know about me. Um, I would say that, uh, you know, the book kind of wrote itself in many ways. Um, so what people don't know is that it takes a team to bring a book alive and you're part of that, uh, team McAbee, um, you know, my wife for years going, all right, your friends have written a book. Where's your book? And I would always hold up a pen and say, it's, it's in this pen, I just gotta squeeze it out. And so there's so many people out there with the ability to self-publish, just put something together, turn it into a P D F, put it up on, uh, K D P, and it's a book, but really, uh, you need, uh, people to help you to, um, guide you a little bit. So I think what people don't realize is that it takes a, a team to write a, a quality book, and I believe we have a quality book, and you were a major part of, uh, bringing that to, to life.
**Maccabee** (00:03:54) - Well, I do appreciate that because again, it was fun to work with. It was, uh, interesting to read some of the, the little stories that you had in there. Uh, I wanna start out by, you know, talking about when you grew up in New York and you, you stated that you always wanted to interact with such a diverse range of people, uh, around your neighborhood, around the city in general, uh, from the drugstore attendants to the misfits on the streets. How have these experiences influenced your ability to connect with people from different backgrounds and foster relationships throughout your career?
**Garry Hall** (00:04:36) - Well, I grew up in what I call, um, a family. That was my mother put the fun and dysfunction, and my father put the funk in dysfunction. So therefore, I sought, um, uh, outside of the home, I sought, uh, I was an attention-seeking son of a gun. And so the more diverse people you meet, the more experiences you gain. You know, I used to hang out at Gene Gordon's Magic Shop on Franklin Street right across from the Buffalo Coffin Company, uh, in Buffalo, New York. And at the same time, uh, celebrities like Dick Cavitt hung out there, uh, as well, we were both young men, uh, learning how to do magic and entertain people. Of course, he went on to a little bit greater, um, greater fame. But I think, uh, the interaction, you know, uh, it just, it's fun. You know, I was seek, I was seeking attention.
**Garry Hall** (00:05:30) - I was seeking fun. I was seeking activity. And, uh, good thing I didn't wind up robbing the, uh, the drugstore or the local, uh, shops or running with gangs. But it was all, all good people. And it wasn't until later I went back to Buffalo and realized, uh, once, if you've survived the winter, you're really helpful, friendly, patriotic, uh, community. It's more than Buffalo Bills. Um, well, no it isn't. It's bowling buffalo bills and, uh, good ethnic food. So I grew up in a, in a, in a northern ethnicity diversity, which is different than maybe a south Texas, uh, diversity. But anyway, it, it shaped me in, I never want to shovel snow again.
**Maccabee** (00:06:18) - I know that feeling. I definitely know that feeling. But thankfully I don't get as much snow as, you know, Buffalo. Um, speaking of some, you know, I don't wanna call him a misfit, but, uh, I would say more of your, your, your ride ride or die, or in this case, crash and burn. Um, let's talk about the ground school engineering exam story, because I think you and SW code name swings, uh, had a very interesting experience in learning what risky leadership is. Can you explain the most valuable lesson you've learned from this experience, uh, and how it has shaped your approach to risk taking in leadership while still explaining, uh, what that experience was for those who haven't had a chance to, uh, read it?
**Garry Hall** (00:07:13) - Well, uh, Sweeney, uh, or sws was my roommate. Uh, for the last two years of our, our time at the Naval Academy, we were four years in the same, uh, company, is how the, uh, Naval Academy was structured back then. And we became, uh, roommates and we were always getting into trouble at the Naval Academy. And in fact, our company officer had to rank us as professionally. And, uh, we were ranked, uh, he was ranked 17. I was ranked number 19 of 19, and we wondered how the one guy got between the two of us. You know, we were doing stuff like rebuilding Porsche carburetors in our, uh, dorm room, which, uh, was forbidden. I remember the maintenance staff came into our room one time and said, uh, Hey boys, where's that stick that goes with this room? And we said, what, what stick? And he goes, the stick to stir up all this crap in here.
**Garry Hall** (00:08:08) - So anyway, we were a little, we were living on the fringe, but when you go to a service academy, even if you have an English degree, you get a bachelor of science. I mean, you are focused on mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, physics, chemistry. Um, so it is a rigorous course. I mean, not, there were semesters that we took 21 or 22 hours. So basically, even if you graduate with a 2.0, you have a solid engineering background. So anyway, the two of us decide we're gonna go down to flight school. At the same time, we became roommates in flight school, and we were two academy graduates with 28 other, um, pilot wannabes, student aviators from all sorts of backgrounds, from officer candidate school and from R O T C. None of them having this, even though we were bottom dwellers, we were bottom dwellers at an extremely difficult academic environment.
**Garry Hall** (00:09:08) - So you start flight school and they say, all right, we're gonna ha give you a battery of exams, uh, to see where you stand. And these were exams in, uh, physics and, uh, mechanics and things of that nature. And in aviation, and everybody in the class, 28, others went, oh, we need to study for these exams. And Sws and I, we said, we don't need to stink and study. This is a piece of cake, and this, when you say it's pastry. And so I said, plus it's nickel beer night at the fel deck, and it's wet t-shirt contest at the barrels. Come on. We're young men. We're, you know, let's hit the town. So we go out and it was nickel beer night at the Fel deck. The fel deck was a bar on the beach where it's wine list was written on the mirror behind the bar saying, number one red, number two, white, please order by the numbers.
**Garry Hall** (00:09:59) - So a real classy place. So we, uh, you know, flew with the owls, hung out, we drank beer, we, you know, yelled, cheered, scared women. And the next day we came in there with a little bit of red eyeballs and, you know, frayed nerves. We took the exams, and out of the 30, only two passed, and it was Sweeney and Hall, and others learned, don't follow those two guys. Years later, men from our class ran into us and said, you guys are still alive and you graduated from flight school. So, uh, we were leaders of the pack, but we were leading them in the wrong direction.
**Maccabee** (00:10:42) - Just a little bit, just a little bit on that one. So how, how did that, that whole experience change your outlook on just leadership in general?
**Garry Hall** (00:10:54) - Well, you know, we were, uh, young back then, and so, um, I think, uh, we were young and felt we were gonna die in a smoking hole in the ocean. You know, we were gonna, we were invincible. And so I think we were, uh, what it taught you is, you know, get grounded, be humble, uh, understand others, you know, don't just lead based on bravado and cheering, et cetera. You know, you can put a lot of emotion into leadership and go, come on, let's go. Well, that's not always the best way. The lesson to learn is, you know, understanding others where they come from, what their experience is, and not be superficial as a leader, but be humble. But it was fun.
**Maccabee** (00:11:39) - Would you consider yourself humble? Um, or more of a, someone who really likes to express his downfalls overall through his life, just to make a, make a sense of don't be like me. This is, this is not how you want to do it,
**Garry Hall** (00:11:58) - <laugh>. Well, you know, um, I've grown into, uh, humility and, you know, self deprecating, uh, humor. Um, it's a, it's a growth path, path. And I think, you know, you have to follow, um, your journey, uh, in that path, but you need to have people around you that are shaping you, uh, in the, in the right direction. And, you know, as I, I talk about a little bit about my, uh, conversion both spiritually and, uh, professionally in that, um, you know, I'd force myself to be successful. I was, uh, Navy's helicopter pilot of the year for sustained performance. Everybody wanted to fly with me. Everybody wanted to go on liberty with me. Everybody wanted to deploy with me. Everybody wanted to hit the beach with me. Uh, I was a, a wild and fun guy, and it was all about me. And when my wife and I used to teach, uh, marriage prep, I would say my priorities were Gary, Gary, Gary, and she would always add in Gary.
**Garry Hall** (00:13:00) - And so I was pretty full of myself and I was doing well. And then my wife said, okay, what, what's going on here? What, you know, are you gonna grow up? Are you gonna be a family man? Are you gonna be, uh, you know, leader of the pack, you know, at the squadron? And so she asked me some very tough questions in that made me be introspective, and I worked it really hard, and I realized, okay, I'm gonna put my faith first. My family second, the Navy third. And it didn't detract from the Navy mission, but guess what? Once I got my priorities in order, and once I found a balance in my life, my career took off. Like I should skyrocket. And so, um, that conversion, both spiritually and professionally, uh, made a, made a big difference. And so it's traveling along the path, you know, marrying the right person, having the right people around you that believe in you and are willing to, um, counsel you.
**Garry Hall** (00:13:56) - And the biggest part is you've gotta accept that counseling. You know, you've gotta, you've gotta listen to others. And that's part of, um, one, uh, Navy chaplain said, it's easy to teach you pilots faith, because you have to, uh, be faithful in believing your instruments are correct. So you have faith in your instruments when you're flying out there at night. And so, um, I think you have to be, uh, true to yourself. You have to listen to others and be willing to accept, um, input. And, you know, that was part of, in flying, I would always listen to my co-pilots. They might be inexperienced, but if they had some sort of concern, it was worth me, uh, evaluating and either explaining why I'm not concerned or why, oh, you've pointed something out that I missed. So, uh, listening to others, taking others inputs, um, you know, from a 360 degree perspective, being willingness and open to taking advice, criticism direction is gonna help you out.
**Maccabee** (00:14:59) - Yeah. You know, and, and that's something I really, uh, thought was interesting when I was, you know, reading the book, uh, through the whole process. Um, because, you know, your wife has been there, uh, as your confidant, as your, uh, counselor for quite a while. Um, and I, I love how you guys have established this interesting dynamic in your decision making, you know, where you handle the major decisions, but she takes care of the smaller ones, and you've never had to deal with making a major decision in your entire
**Garry Hall** (00:15:37) - Marriage. <laugh>, when I tell that story, people suck the wind right out of the room. As you know, I say, we have a traditional marriage, I make the big decision. She makes the little ones in, in 45 years to tell you how good I am. I've never had to make a big decision. So, um, no, I follow her lead. She has, uh, made me, um, I don't wanna say, somebody told me, never say the word better, because that means you're not there yet. But she improved my ability as a father and as a husband. And, uh, you know, and the other thing is, at 45 years of marriage, you can't say, okay, I've got it wired now, you know, I can e ease off. No, it's, it's constantly learning, uh, relearning. And one thing I've learned is tone. You know, um, when she asked me a question, you know, she, the acceptable answer can be, no, not, no, it, it, you know. So, um, it, it's all about tone and, uh, and having fun together. So in this BS about never go to bed mad. I mean, that's, you know, that's, that's wrong. In fact, if she's mad at me, uh, she'll either be, give me the silent treatment for 24 or 48 hours, and during that time, I get a lot done. And then she says, are you ready to talk about why I'm upset? And I go, no, I trust your judgment. <laugh>, how come confession
**Maccabee** (00:17:10) - <laugh>? Oh, wow, I need to use that one. Uh, no, cuz I'm still working on the tone. I've been married for almost 20 years. I'm still working on the tone part.
**Garry Hall** (00:17:21) - <laugh>, the other, uh, secret to marriage is, it's a secret. Um, no, the, the other thing that was pointed out, uh, later in my life, and in fact it was, uh, pointed out at a convention of admirals, and they brought a psychologist in, and it's something that everybody needs to think about. And that is, when you're physically present, be mentally present. And you know, the young people that are, you know, high potential, high movers, you know, in Washington DC and stuff like that on Sunday night, they're thinking about the PowerPoint that's due tomorrow, or the congressman, they've got a brief, no. Uh, when you're physically present, be mentally present in the story. Went to see my granddaughters at an ice cream social in San Diego, outside DJ face painting ice cream. And all these San Diego moms, pull their little wagons, set up their sunscreens, and then sit there on their iPhones, you know, going, oh, I like this. Oh, don't like that. Oh, you know, updating Facebook when they need to be physic mentally present with their child that they're physically present with. I'm going, all right, don't you see the kids are getting their faces paint, they're dancing, you're da, you know, um, put the tablet down, put the smartphone down. Uh, take your, you know, reading glasses off. Look at your spouse, talk directly when spoken to. Yeah.
**Maccabee** (00:18:41) - I, I think that's something that, that a lot of us are still trying to really edit out of our lives right now, um, because of the fact that we've been doing it for so long. And it's, you know, it is one of those habits that it takes a lifetime just to remove. And it's one of those situations that, you know, like you said before, Tony is everything. You know, if, if you come out talking to somebody and you have a sarcastic, uh, atone to everything you say, or almost everything you say, it's really difficult to really have those conversations and helping people change. Um, but as a highly successful leader, such as yourself, you've emphasized the importance of humor and having a quick wit to help people to get those defenses down. Can you recall a time when your ability to make people laugh or think quickly on your feet have helped diffuse a tense situation or bring your team together in some, uh, form?
**Garry Hall** (00:19:50) - Well, I've got, uh, a few of those stories. And I, at, so after commanding a ship, I was, uh, sent to, uh, north is Naval Air Station North Island, where I was executive assistant to the number one guy in naval aviation. He was Commander Naval, a Naval Forces Pacific, and Naval Aviation forces. And he was, his call sign was black. And everybody was terrified of this, uh, three star admiral. And I mean, he was smart. He was a, you know, honor graduate from the Naval Academy, top gun pilot, fighter pilot. He was bad ass. And everybody was frightened of him. And I show up in the staff and some of the assistant chiefs of staff, one developed ulcers working for this Admiral one developed a stutter working for this admiral, and meetings with him, terrified everybody. And so he'd come in, uh, we, we'd have these morning meetings and we'd be all be be around the conference table, and my seat was adjacent to his, and he came in and we all popped to attention stand up. And he goes, I am spitting mad this morning. I'm gonna rip somebody's face off. And so I put my arm around his shoulders and pointed at one of the other captains, and I go him, rip his face off, get him <laugh>, everybody pooped their pants. But the admiral started, uh, laughing and then just sat down. We got to business.
**Maccabee** (00:21:18) - Oh my gosh, I would've hated to pin that captain. Like, what did I do? What did I do to you?
**Garry Hall** (00:21:25) - Get him, get him. So anyway,
**Maccabee** (00:21:29) - Oh man, it, it, it is funny what, you know, reflecting on your distinguished career, you know, can you share an instance, uh, where you had vividly observed the packed principle, you know, passion, accountability, commitment, and traits and traditions coming together to create a significant impact, either in your personal life or your professional life because of your
**Garry Hall** (00:21:54) - Wit? Well, um, yeah, it's hard to say that it did it all come together, but it's kind of like a, a, a roadmap. Uh, you mentioned the, the pact, uh, with leadership, and I've got that down to, you know, uh, passion, accountability, commitment, traits and behaviors. Somebody told me it's, you know, traits, traditions, behaviors, how you act. And I'll tell you, um, you know, for one, you gotta have passion or the desire, uh, to lead. And when I used to write the flight schedule, we had guys in the squadron that, uh, we called seagulls because you had to throw a rock at 'em to make 'em fly. So there's people that wanna fly and people that say they wanna fly, and the people that wanna fly, uh, will take the, the difficult, uh, missions. And so then when you, you go out and fly, you gotta be accountable to yourself, you know, to your profession, to the flight schedule and commitment, um, is, you know, I tell this story, uh, in the book, that commitment is like, um, a diner's, you know, American breakfast of toast, hash browns, uh, scrambled eggs, orange juice, you know, the farmer produced the oranges for the orange juice.
**Garry Hall** (00:23:06) - The baker provided the bread for the toast. The farmer provided the potatoes for the hash browns. You know, the chicken provided the egg, but the pig, the pig who provided the bacon is really committed. So you need to be the, the pig, uh, in your, in your everyday life. And so I think, um, pulling all those four things together is what led to, um, my helicopter detachment when I was a lieutenant commander, being the number one detachment in the Navy, recognized by the, um, secretary of the Navy. And I was recognized as helicopter pilot of the year because we were committed, we were accountable, and we followed the traditions and behaviors of past, uh, successful, uh, teams. So, and we had a passion in that. So we built a strong, strong team. And so I think that was the first success that I went, pulled it all together and went, okay, this, this process works of, you know, um, having passion about what you're doing, having accountability, you know, being committed and committed is what makes you continue on when you have setbacks and, uh, you know, following the traits, traditions, and behaviors of other successful, uh, people, you know, makes you successful.
**Garry Hall** (00:24:22) - Also, watching the behaviors of those that are not good leaders is helpful, cuz that gives you, um, road signs to follow to, okay, don't be like that. That does, that process doesn't work. You know, I mean, a leader can be a son of a gun, and you want to, you want the organization to continue on when you're not around. In other words, you've taken a couple of days off or you've transferred or whatever. And if you're a a, an s o b leader, usually you step away from the team, uh, everybody settles back and stops doing their, you know, what they're supposed to be doing. So anyway, learn from good, learn from bad.
**Maccabee** (00:25:02) - Yeah. And, and it is the other aspect of, you know, don't be, don't take risks that don't need to be taken, you know, because, you know, a, as you learned at an early age with, with Sweeney, you know, don't be that PAC leader if you're, if you're trying to be someone who wants to be known as a great leader, learning how to have a pact that works for you and helps to provide a roadmap that's going to push you to that successful, uh, point that you're leading to does help. And because of that, it's come to the point of the show where we do a little bit of character creation for, I love our fictional char, uh, fictional author, excuse me. But for those who do leadership, uh, books or memoirs or things of that nature, we like to put their experience in their expertise to the test, per se.
**Maccabee** (00:26:04) - So I have a character by the name of Jess Wildcat for Simi, okay? He is this guy that's always thought of himself as a great leader, but he's not that great of a leader. He's been told multiple times by people around the world that he's a wild card and that he's really, he's more of a toxic leader than he is an actual leader. So he has come to the point in his life where, just like you, he's had that come to Jesus moment where everything is about to just disappear on him. Like, all right, I need to fix this. If you were his supervisor, his leader, what are the five major things that you would say a leader has to have to be that great leader?
**Garry Hall** (00:27:01) - Well, well, first of all, I would probably, uh, going back and go talking to call sign wildcard and saying, you know, and addressing, um, the behavior, uh, and separating it from the person. So I, I would motivate that person, you know, Hey, you're a good man, I've watched you around your children, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But these behaviors, you need to, uh, throttle back, you know, you, you realize how you, um, affect others. So, um, you know, how do I break it down to, uh, uh, five things? Well, one, um, if you join an organization, you should, uh, um, create a, a document and who you are or who you know, who are you. Uh, so we can categorize, sit down and think, you know, what are your, your traits? So I would have somebody do some, uh, thinking and writing and creating a document on who they are, and if they're g joining an organization, you know, uh, who, you know, what is the, who we are of that organization.
**Garry Hall** (00:28:05) - So you know that you're within the, uh, the boundaries. Uh, two, I think you need to, um, you know, be responsible, uh, in your personal behavior and your professional behavior. So responsibility professionally as a leader is you gotta keep learning. You just, like we talked about earlier, you know, uh, married 20 years, married 40 years, you're still learning, learning about your spouse because, uh, life is changing. And so you have to be a, a lifelong, uh, learner, um, because as you go and get into different situations, uh, things change. And so you constantly have to be, um, learning. And as you go from one job to another job, what got you this new position, whether you're transferring out of the military or whatever, um, the traits that got you selected might not be those traits completely needed in that organization. So you need to be, uh, self-aware of, um, your requirements.
**Garry Hall** (00:29:05) - I think, um, setting goals and, uh, setting goals, um, in writing and in a positive way, um, makes a difference on, on your behaviors. Because, uh, if your goal is, you know, money or possessions, you know, talk, you put a timeline to it, you write a goal that is positive, like, I'm in the possession of a, um, 2016 Corvette in gold color, and this is what I'm gonna do to, uh, get that. If it, if it Corvette was your, you know, your, your goal or if if money, so write out goals, putting pen to paper. I know there's smartphones, there's note apps, there's all these things, but there is something, um, metaphysical psychological about using your brain, putting a pen or pencil in your hand and writing it on the paper. And so I think, uh, goal setting, uh, for yourself and for your organization, and I think, uh, being, um, uh, balanced in your life, and I think, you know, I'm not gonna afraid to say it, you need some sort of faith-based, uh, in your, in your life.
**Garry Hall** (00:30:17) - And that'll help, uh, smooth out some of those rough edges of a wild cat and maybe learn, um, risk, um, uh, r operational risk management or, you know, how, what, what are your behaviors? You need to take a, a self-assessment. I think every leader needs to take a, a self-assessment, maybe have another advisor, somebody they trust, talk to 'em bluntly and say, you know, here's where your rough edge is. So, um, you then put, uh, controls in place if you're weak on one area, put a control in place so that, uh, um, that weakness is covered, uh, is managed properly. So if you're an emerging leader, you know, the five things I say, uh, or might be four things. I don't know. There's three types of people in the world, those that are good with math and those that aren't. But anyway, uh, I tell young people, <laugh>, you know, if you wanna be a good leader, one show up on time, rested and ready to go, you know, don't stay up and play, um, uh, you know, video games until two o'clock in the morning and then show up at work at eight o'clock, you know, and show up rested, ready to go, be clean of body, mind, and uniform.
**Garry Hall** (00:31:31) - And so, uh, being clean of body is, nobody likes to work with anybody that stinks. You know, be clean of mind that you have, you know, poor, pure thoughts ready for, um, work and, uh, um, in your clothes, your appearance. You know, don't show up at your job at McDonald's with stains from three days of, uh, fry and burgers. So be clean of body, mind, and uniform. Uh, have a, have a happy appearance. In other words, um, be pleasant and do things that are unexpected. In other words, you see the trash, take it out. You see something that needs to be picked up, pick it up, you know, you'll inspire others. So anyway, that's a lot of mishmash I've thrown out there. I don't know if five things to make yourself a, a better leader, but you know, you need to figure out who you are, where you stand, what you, what do you stand for, and create goals, and then pursue them with passion and commitment.
**Maccabee** (00:32:31) - I, I, I think we've, we, we have given all those wildcats out there, a a good start to getting themselves into the position that's going to make them, uh, more prosperous and more generous with that prosperity to, to others. So now it has come to the point of the show where we learn a little bit more details about you as a person, as an author, as a leader, as just you. So as an author, what is your writing kryptonite?
**Garry Hall** (00:33:08) - Um, shiny objects, <laugh>. Okay, so in other words, oh, squirrel. Um, it's actually sitting down now. I thought when I started the process, I go, okay, I'm gonna treat this like a job. I'm gonna write from, uh, eight o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock. I'm gonna take a break and I'm gonna get back at it until, uh, you know, lunchtime. Um, and I'm going, okay, that didn't work. All right. So I'm gonna use the, um, uh, palmero method. And, uh, that's where you, you write for 25 minutes, take a five minute break. And now, and again, with smartphones, with, uh, uh, apple watch, things like that, there's all sorts of pom Pomodoro apps. And Pomodoro comes from, uh, somebody who used a, a timer that looked like a tomato and, uh, doing the, uh, 25 minute work, five minute break. So basically, um, finding that spot to, so the kryptonite is distractions.
**Maccabee* (00:34:08) - Yeah, no, that's definitely something I have a difficulty with it too. Um, is there a quote, a person or a song or something in general that inspires you to continue writing?
**Garry Hall** (00:34:23) - Oh, to continue to continue writing? Well, see, I, I, I was thinking of a, a quote of, um, my good friend who, uh, passed away at age, uh, 70 after a battle of two cancers for six months. He was, uh, amazing, uh, uh, mentor. But, uh, he said, um, and it's a simple quote, Gary, when a door opens, walk through it. And so I think it's, when you have an opportunity, uh, take it. Don't, um, don't ring your hands. Don't, uh, Fred about it. Don't think about it from different, uh, angles. When a door opens, uh, walk through it. And that has hit me several times, both pre in my professional life, in my personal life and my parenting life. When a door opens, walk through it.
**Maccabee** (00:35:11) - And, and you know, that's a good one for even just writing too, is like, when you have the opportunity to do it, just do it. Don't think about it. Don't get distracted, just do it. Um, what is next for Mr. Garry Hall?
**Garry Hall** (00:35:28) - Well, uh, you know, I continue the, the podcast, the Admiral's Almanac, the Witten Wisdom of Rear Admiral Gary Hall, uh, um, uh, you know, not a regular podcast, but it's when the spirit moves me, um, to, uh, spend more time with, uh, um, grandchildren. And, uh, I hate their, I hate their parents, but grandchildren are, are great. Um, but no, in, in the writing world, the next, uh, step of, uh, navigating leadership, we're gonna become navigating marriage. And it's not gonna be just written by me, but by, um, I think it kind of like a Chicken Soup for the soul. Um, have many people contribute because, uh, marriages are like snowflakes. I mean, e each one is, is different. And so we want to get writers that have suffered, uh, um, a divorce, have had a child that has disabilities, how does it affect your marriage?
**Garry Hall** (00:36:27) - How do you survive and how do you put the pact, passion, accountability, commitment, uh, traits and behaviors into a marriage? So that's the navigating, um, series. So, uh, what was interesting is I thought I was gonna write a book a certain way, and it started writing itself. And also again, having somebody else going, Hey, have you thought about this? Or you thought about that. In other words, having a team to assist you, um, in the process, uh, takes you down a different road because I, you know, you did continuity and editing of the book, and hopefully it wasn't all military speak. You know, I've been speaking a certain language for a, a long time and I say things and people go, what does that mean? So you need others to help you along the way, so you aren't, you know, as we say, drink in your own bath water. You're not just using language that you understand, but nobody else, um, understands.
**Maccabee** (00:37:24) - So finally, we have come to the point where it is the shameless self-promotion point. Where can people find you? Is there any big events coming up? The floor is yours.
**Garry Hall** (00:37:35) - Well, uh, my podcast firstname.lastname@example.org. That'll take you to my podcast. And if you wanna get first notification of when Navigating Leadership is available, go to navigating leadership book.com and that you can sign up, send me a message, but www.admiralsalmanac.com, you can send me a voicemail and you may show up on a show or you can listen to, um, past episodes, uh, some fun, some very serious, some, uh, talking about faith leadership, naval leadership, uh, um, and learning stories about other people that have overcome adversity. So there you go. Navigating leadership book.com and admirals almanac uh, dot com is where you can find me. Um, I'll be in your local bookstores and I'll be navigating, leadership is gonna be a minor motion picture. Um, I'm gonna revive my childhood magic act. Um, so my mother used to always say, Gary Show, show 'em that trick where you take two rabbits and you make 'em disappear and reappear in another person's hand and then multiply to five rabbits. I go, thanks mom. You spoiled the whole routine.
**Maccabee** (00:38:50) - Oh my gosh, those are the parents that you don't want to have. Thank you for being on the show. I appreciate you being on here,
**Garry Hall** (00:38:57) - Man. Well, thank you, Maccabee. I appreciate it. I appreciate it all you did to help me bring my, uh, book to life.